Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Good to see some things remain consistent

Don't need a GEO, you can attack cap with Last Resort?

This is why this forum is a joke, it's just full of trash players who think they aren't.

Completely blows my mind, I need to stop wasting my time...

If you think that prime scythe is going to fix you're garbage dps problems, it's not. Fix your gear and understand how attack capping works.

I agree with this in general, but you have to consider that this is also just the phase 3 version and is incomplete.

Also, restoration of MP isn't something to scoff at either especially considering Schere Earring. If this WS does well in other content, using it to keep your MP pool topped off would mean you reduce the risk of pulling or capping hate. In longer fights like Kalunga, this might be valuable. Yes you could use Entropy but the damage here might be more considerable.

It's also the highest base damage in the game AFAIK, the stats on it should result in some good numbers from Cross Reaper and you would hopefully have less issues whiffing than you do with Torcleaver.

Worth 6 months of doing Sortie every night? That's a tougher call, but I think there is more here than just restoring HP.

Before we have a 3-page argument about strawmen, let's get something straight. You aren't doing 99k Torcleavers on bosses in Sortie, the Prime Scythe is, albiet on a top floor boss. The Prime gsword can average around 80k on Triboulex but technically hit capped dmg. That is what we are talking about. Your Torcleavers aren't breaking 70k with Caladbolg under the same conditions on the same bosses. It just isn't and you know that. Feel free to show proof though.

As the other guy said, no one cares if you are doing capped damage somewhere else. The Qutrub part was a joke, but so are fully buffed Torcs in Ody segs. The Prime weapons are already stronger INSIDE of Sortie, and when you can use them outside, they will be there as well. It's not like you do double dmg, so you don't have to get any Prime if you don't want it, but it's NOTHING like the shield and that is just you trying to cope so you don't feel bad about not getting it.

I've never tried to do a 3k Torcleaver fully melee buffed on A boss so I'd love to now just for a comparison. He was hitting those 99999s at capped TP so apples to apples. We run a BLM, SCH x 2 setup.

That said, I'm inclined to agree with you, I just would like to know now how far off it is after watching that? Or like I said, more testing outside Sortie once people upgrade further.

For all we know, mobs inside sortie might have an inherent weakness to prime weaponskills.

3 weeks ago, everyone was disgusted by the grind for prime weapons, now a couple 90k++ dmg @ 3000TP when fully buffed screenshots/videos emerge and everyones happily back on that treadmill willing to chase that carrot.

It was never about the grind, it was the fear that the weapons would be mid. They may still be mid.

And that's fine, we do need way more testing. Most of these people are just having fun or are busy and haven't had the chance to test them much, so we will get more info as time goes by.

But your original comment was implying that Torc is on the same level as the Prime WS and they just aren't. I understand your points and skepticism, but comparing what Torc can do outside of Sortie on random stuff is literally useless. You even brought up "apples to apples" while ironically talking about oranges previously.

Just to be clear (and I'm not gonna beat this horse any further again), I'm still disgusted by the grind and still not sure they are worth the effort. The scythe has always been one with the highest potential even not knowing what we know about the WS now, but the question of effort vs reward is still up in the air. IMO especially seeing how these can change Sortie runs to be more dynamic compositions, it would've given more longevity to Sortie if phase 3 were more approachable, rn it's kindof a chicken and egg problem where making Sortie runs more interesting requires doing more Sortie runs just to get there.

They also updated the properties, which for some of them could be significant, mainly the dagger and scythe. The ability to do Light on DRK with a scythe and the dagger jobs with a potentially powerful WS opens up some interesting possibilities for those jobs, this wasn't the case before and made them less appealing even if the WS were good.

Hey If You're Not Discussing TESTING, Stop Posting.

The only way for Torc to hit capped damage at 3000TP reliably without Geo and any gimmicks is:
- /drg
- DSNE absorb-vit with Liberator and gear
- ML 50
- at least semi good usage of Scarlet Delirium

The last one used perfectly can probably do the trick by itself, because once again its the most underrated JA in the game in term of dps, but its very hard to use against any target that can multiattack and kills you instead of buffing you.

Going back to apples to apples, Velner using same buffs was hitting up to maybe 70k Torc, when Gsword Prime was doing up to 95k, so Prime is simply stronger at it's base.

This makes sense to me somewhat. Theoretically, having the WS outperform in Sortie to make content easier to clear would ease the galli grind, making it easier to advance your progression with the weapon. Remain a bit skeptical though as that would lock you into doing sortie on a specific job which id hope SE wouldn’t do (but wouldn’t put it past them).

Also, I wonder if two different prime weapons’ weapon skills sc’d together could produce some sort of special effect? A damage spike, lowering of the nuke wall, or have some other effect. Would have to test with more than 1 weapon, 1 weapon self sc’ing, but could be an interesting idea. That effect as well could be limited to Sortie.

Has anyone confirmed if Prime WS are walled the same way others are?

Yes, they are.


None for me. They were simply designed to clap and we just see the result of that. I can believe in the theory, that they can produce some special interaction in Sortie, but damage boost to everything in Sortie is just naive.

Thanks for the polite and constructive feedback.

The mobs in sortie I don't think are particularly susceptible to prime weaponskills. The weaponskills work well in there because in these examples they are using top buffs, which makes use of their PDL etc etc. And, SE tuned the weaponskills to be pretty good. This is good for the game.

Some reservations I have is if the weapons are worth it past this stage so its nice to see the hype, but reality checks in. I think the testing and discussion here have conclusively shown that stage 3? is worth it where it can be used in Sortie. This stage is attainable by players, but the next one... I dunno.

Go to other thread to moan thanks

Obvious play, not needed, thanks. Read the instructions.

Well the the testing is being done with half *** useless info people are gonna discuss it and call it out. If you followed your own post you wouldn't even be posting on this at all. Relax guy

Guy expects people to burn their own Sortie runs to test the WS's lol

Get your own weapon and test stuff out if you need the information that badly.

To be fair, the Stage 2 prime weapon does ignore the damage resistance (in phase 1) of Chaos in the final fight of VR. Though, I do not think that this is case in sortie, since normal weapons and weaponskills hit as hard as expected.

Just ignore the negative salty folks here... Not worth your time.

You have to almost admire the confidence they have in their ignorance.

Most people working toward weapons are sitting on points, waiting for you to waste your time testing weapons so we don't have to. Thank you for your great service to this community, but don't come here unless you have dataz. I need to know which is BiS.

It was polite. Everyone can be naive from time to time (i am for sure), sometimes it doesn't even is a bad thing, so not sure why you are so upset. We have no reason to believe all mobs in Sortie are coded to take extra damage from Prime WS. It would be very poor idea even for Tanaka. It breaks immunity in chaos fight, but only because it's lore and story fight. It was build up for months with info in several cut scenes. You could speculate bosses could react to Prime somehow but not everything inside Sortie.

It is not entirely out of the question for things within sortie to take extra damage from the ws's.

There's simply no way to know until the weapons are stage 4. There's no point arguing about it.

"Relic ws don't do extra damage blah blah blah" Look that was 20 years ago and a 100% team replacement. They're not the same.

That is true, but if they do extra damage and dagger was doing 5-7k with some special boost (even unbuffed) on RDM with Temper II (so probably most of those were 7hits), then it would be one of the worst WS in the game and that's super hard to belive.

The dagger was also the only data set we have from a prime weapon with nonexistant buffs. All these other weapons have been done in partys where the user is getting songs, rolls, and in many cases fury on top of that. For the dagger to perform even at the level it was under those circumstances is impressive. It wasn't making use of any PDL, and was in fact in the negative pDIF range, and he was missing swings on his weaponskill. So the ceiling for merciless strike should actually be very high.

The thing about merciless strike that most interests me is the possibility of replicating fTP, which I think is probably going to be the case. Those dagger weaponskills were done at close to 1K TP. If merciless strike's tp scaling and stat mods are good, like 80% or so, and tp both scales well and replicates, then even if the trailing hits don't benefit from WSD they'll still add a notable amount of damage to the weaponskill, and at higher tp values should scale very hard. That would also make multi attack procs very noticeable, similarly to how they are in monk. Up to this point H2H weaponskills are the only category where multi hit have both replicating fTP AND good tp scaling on top of that. But if they took a page out of monk's arsenal and merciless strike is yet another tornado kick, raging fists, or howling fists type of deal... well. Things could get interesting.

I'll be building the dagger myself, and I hope to have it by the end of next week. If nobody has anything new to add for it by then hopefully I'll be able to provide some more useful sample data.

If you are using DNC\THF at least you'll have Climatic\SA to test if it's all in on the first hit and all those other hits are just free damage.

A weird thing about the Dagger(and the Axe) is that they have 3 stats instead of 2 like the rest. They could be just adding CHR to the other stats because they are generally useful to the jobs, but I'd imagine that all 3 are stat mods. Instead of 80% of 1 stat, or 60% of 2, you might be looking at 40% of 3. Much more of a concern for gearing if it's FTP replicating instead of WSD.

On the plus side that means it would get a lot out of MLs.

I think I've seen enough with regards to scythe. Even if it is only slightly better than Apoc blow for blow, ws vs ws, having MP and HP topped up, and being able to spam it for light is a really nice change. its a lot of cookies in one weapon. Duban is also really good. I don't think any DRK's watched that JP's video and walked away feeling like it wasn't worth it.

Don't get ahead of yourself. I think it's more likely MPU gandring comes with all 3 stats simply because bard is on the dagger. Dagger weaponskills usually come with some sort of dex mod, but there are exceptions. Mercy stroke only had a strength mod, and exenterator is pure agi, and apart from mordant rime the only other somewhat relevant dagger weaponskill with a charisma mod is dancing edge (shadowstitch isn't relevant). Point being... it's impossible to even guess what kind of mods we're going to get. The stat mods could be anything.

The main point is that an fTP replicating weaponskill CAN be incredibly powerful IF the tp scales the way it does in monk's updated weaponskills. We're looking at a 4 hit weaponskill here (technically 5 hits for thief or dnc because they always dial wield, so the offhand gets at least one swing in too). If fTP scales upwards to the 3.5-5.0 range you could get some really silly numbers with an 80% stat mod, especially with a triple attack. That would also shift the gearing emphasis AWAY from Nyame and toward multi attack gear with higher base stats. We're all familiar with how monk's weaponskills operate post-H2H update. I'm anticipating something similar here. That would make nailing down the variables a LOT more difficult inside sortie though, since you can only truly test for specifics in a controlled environment. But you could definitely get a feel for the generalities of what's going on just by spamming at various TP points.