Difficulty In FFXI - A Retrospective

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Difficulty in FFXI - a retrospective
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-01-04 12:12:59
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I would even bet that you can literally tell a gm that you do use windower and not only would they likely have no clue what it is, they wouldn't care.

The next set of new accounts I make, that's worth $10 to post.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 12:19:00
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
You use this program to modify game files

Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Yes, Windower is "modifying the game and gameplay"

Which game files does Windower modify? Could someone explain to me how the game functions differently, or how the gameplay is altered by using Windower, instead of just saying it does?

OK, if this is how we're going to have a discussion, I'll take your route: Windower is not modifying the game files. Windower is not modifying the game or gameplay.
Go contact a GM and tell them you're using windower lol
I'm gonna guess it went over your head but sure man be dumb about it I guess. The program itself isn't til you turn plug-in and ***on. Why people are being braindead apes about this and acting like they don't know what people mean is stupid.
Ok, you're right, windower isnt cheating, so you can safely tell GM you play on windower :)

You're pretty much making up your own arbitrary line of what is and isnt acceptable cheating to justify why your cheating is acceptable. Theres only one entity that can draw the line of what isnt and isnt cheating in FFXI, and that is SE.
Yes no ***guy I'm saying se decides that also you may wanna redirect your cheating accusations at someone else I'm one of the few left who using full on macros and ***with old equip macros. I don't make the rules nor draw the line so idk why you seem to think I'm spear heading and defending windower I'm calling people out who keep saying it's not really cheating. Also calling a gm ain't gonna do ***they all sleep anyway.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-01-04 12:22:20
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
I'm gonna guess it went over your head but sure man be dumb about it I guess. The program itself isn't til you turn plug-in and ***on. Why people are being braindead apes about this and acting like they don't know what people mean is stupid.

I'm not clear if you're calling me, Nynja, or someone else a braindead ape here, but for the record:

Nynja advocates that Windower, plugins or not, is against ToS.
I advocate that Plugins, Addons, Taco, Cureplease, etc. are cheating and against ToS, but Windower without any Plugins, Addons, etc. is not against ToS.

I'm not trying to say that you can't use Windower to load lua scripts which modify the gameplay. I'm saying Windower doesn't have to be used to load all that crap, you can just use it to load FFXI in two windows on a machine, which doesn't change the way the game functions, which is what the ToS explicitly states is against their terms.

Here's a thought experiment: if you have two computers or a single computer with a VM, is there a difference in the way your two instances of FFXI run on those two PCs compared to running both instances on a single PC through Windower? OK now load Dressup, Anchor, and Gearswap on one PC, and don't load those on the other PC. Is there a difference in the way the game runs on those two PCs?

This is where I draw the line, the same place (IMHO) SE draws the line, at least according to their website: altering the gameplay of the game.
 Bahamut.Mhysa
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By Bahamut.Mhysa 2023-01-04 12:26:34
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
You use this program to modify game files

Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Yes, Windower is "modifying the game and gameplay"

Which game files does Windower modify? Could someone explain to me how the game functions differently, or how the gameplay is altered by using Windower, instead of just saying it does?

OK, if this is how we're going to have a discussion, I'll take your route: Windower is not modifying the game files. Windower is not modifying the game or gameplay.
Go contact a GM and tell them you're using windower lol
I'm gonna guess it went over your head but sure man be dumb about it I guess. The program itself isn't til you turn plug-in and ***on. Why people are being braindead apes about this and acting like they don't know what people mean is stupid.
Ok, you're right, windower isnt cheating, so you can safely tell GM you play on windower :)

You're pretty much making up your own arbitrary line of what is and isnt acceptable cheating to justify why your cheating is acceptable. Theres only one entity that can draw the line of what isnt and isnt cheating in FFXI, and that is SE.
Yes no ***guy I'm saying se decides that also you may wanna redirect your cheating accusations at someone else I'm one of the few left who using full on macros and ***with old equip macros. I don't make the rules nor draw the line so idk why you seem to think I'm spear heading and defending windower I'm calling people out who keep saying it's not really cheating. Also calling a gm ain't gonna do ***they all sleep anyway.

While Nynja, I know you for a time back, and know the people you played with and the way you play. You are riding this high horse as if you were also vanilla homeboy. I hope you also keeping this energy to all the people who you play and played with and the people who have been carrying you through Odyssey, same as Maletaru lol. Don’t forget that there’s receipts from Emerald, Nynja.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-01-04 12:27:43
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If Windower allows you to load two copies of FFXI whereas the official windower does not, then it modifies the game.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 12:28:45
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
I'm gonna guess it went over your head but sure man be dumb about it I guess. The program itself isn't til you turn plug-in and ***on. Why people are being braindead apes about this and acting like they don't know what people mean is stupid.

I'm not clear if you're calling me, Nynja, or someone else a braindead ape here, but for the record:

Nynja advocates that Windower, plugins or not, is against ToS.
I advocate that Plugins, Addons, Taco, Cureplease, etc. are cheating and against ToS, but Windower without any Plugins, Addons, etc. is not against ToS.

I'm not trying to say that you can't use Windower to load lua scripts which modify the gameplay. I'm saying Windower doesn't have to be used to load all that crap, you can just use it to load FFXI in two windows on a machine, which doesn't change the way the game functions, which is what the ToS explicitly states is against their terms.

Here's a thought experiment: if you have two computers or a single computer with a VM, is there a difference in the way your two instances of FFXI run on those two PCs compared to running both instances on a single PC through Windower? OK now load Dressup, Anchor, and Gearswap on one PC, and don't load those on the other PC. Is there a difference in the way the game runs on those two PCs?

This is where I draw the line, the same place (IMHO) SE draws the line, at least according to their website: altering the gameplay of the game.
I'm not really calling you braindead just saying people in general who defend windower and seems to think a 3rd party program isn't cheating in anyway. I understand some of the stuff can be done without it. All I'm saying is people just tried to push it like I defend it and saying I full cheat use knock back and blah blah. I don't cheat people who've played with me k ow this I can't even figure out how to get my game sound back on for 11 lol
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-01-04 12:30:19
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Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
While Nynja, I know you for a time back, and know the people you played with and the way you play. You are riding this high horse as if you were also vanilla homeboy. I hope you also keeping this energy to all the people who you play and played with and the people who have been carrying you through Odyssey, same as Maletaru lol. Don’t forget that there’s receipts from Emerald, Nynja.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-01-04 12:33:10
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I don't think most would classify a fully stock vanilla Windower as cheating, but it is absolutely against ToS whether an individual GM will enforce it on a dime or not.

Only time I really have any umbrage with "cheaters" is when they make a cringe forum post akin to "lol it's easy bro get good" when they're loading up every DLL on github with a gearswap file that basically plays the game for them. When you've automated the game to the point where you don't even have to hit a WS macro, you've forfeited your right to talk ***to or about anyone.
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 Bahamut.Mhysa
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By Bahamut.Mhysa 2023-01-04 12:40:20
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
While Nynja, I know you for a time back, and know the people you played with and the way you play. You are riding this high horse as if you were also vanilla homeboy. I hope you also keeping this energy to all the people who you play and played with and the people who have been carrying you through Odyssey, same as Maletaru lol. Don’t forget that there’s receipts from Emerald, Nynja.

Idk why people are discussing with you, when you got banned. Anyway.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 12:41:02
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I don't think most would classify a fully stock vanilla Windower as cheating, but it is absolutely against ToS whether an individual GM will enforce it on a dime or not.

Only time I really have any umbrage with "cheaters" is when they make a cringe forum post akin to "lol it's easy bro get good" when they're loading up every DLL on github with a gearswap file that basically plays the game for them. When you've automated the game to the point where you don't even have to hit a WS macro, you've forfeited your right to talk ***to or about anyone.
This right here is what I mean and is my point thank you. Gonna bow out of this topic now don't wanna get the hammer.
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 Bahamut.Mhysa
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By Bahamut.Mhysa 2023-01-04 12:44:06
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
Legion feels like a fever dream to me. I remember clearing all halls with my Linkshell (and I thought it was hard, tbh!) but now when I talk to a couple of friends who still play, they mention that they never did Legion due it’s difficulty.

Ah, the good days where 3 HNMs got to stomp on you at the same time!

Legion was probably the first content that really required the DD's to wear hybrid sets. The SCH's would still do their best to stun lock stuff, but the bosses got kinda stupid at the higher tiers. It as alliance content so we got to get creative with party setups.

Right! I actually did enjoy Legion a lot and the strats for it were very mixed. I think it had a lot of potential, but not a lot of people adventured into it. I also remember there being like a week lockout? Again, all of a fever dream!
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2023-01-04 12:50:18
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I don't think most would classify a fully stock vanilla Windower as cheating, but it is absolutely against ToS whether an individual GM will enforce it on a dime or not.

Only time I really have any umbrage with "cheaters" is when they make a cringe forum post akin to "lol it's easy bro get good" when they're loading up every DLL on github with a gearswap file that basically plays the game for them. When you've automated the game to the point where you don't even have to hit a WS macro, you've forfeited your right to talk ***to or about anyone.

Are we playing the game, or is the game playing us?

Step by step guide on how to defeat the ultimate boss in FFXI.

Super Secret Strategy Guide
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By Mattelot 2023-01-04 12:50:47
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Only time I really have any umbrage with "cheaters" is when they make a cringe forum post akin to "lol it's easy bro get good" when they're loading up every DLL on github with a gearswap file that basically plays the game for them. When you've automated the game to the point where you don't even have to hit a WS macro, you've forfeited your right to talk ***to or about anyone.

Very well said.

I have to hear bragging comments from cheaters in this game for the past few years. People botting their master levels, flexing about "How come you're only 35, bro? I'm almost 50 on all mine!"
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-01-04 12:51:26
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Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
While Nynja, I know you for a time back, and know the people you played with and the way you play. You are riding this high horse as if you were also vanilla homeboy. I hope you also keeping this energy to all the people who you play and played with and the people who have been carrying you through Odyssey, same as Maletaru lol. Don’t forget that there’s receipts from Emerald, Nynja.

Idk why people are discussing with you, when you got banned. Anyway.
Remoted home from work just to get this for u bb


Check your sources ***
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 Bahamut.Mhysa
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By Bahamut.Mhysa 2023-01-04 12:57:28
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
While Nynja, I know you for a time back, and know the people you played with and the way you play. You are riding this high horse as if you were also vanilla homeboy. I hope you also keeping this energy to all the people who you play and played with and the people who have been carrying you through Odyssey, same as Maletaru lol. Don’t forget that there’s receipts from Emerald, Nynja.

Idk why people are discussing with you, when you got banned. Anyway.
Remoted home from work just to get this for u bb


Check your sources ***

Oh wow, I pulled a nerve there haha, my sources are more than fine. Stay banned <3 I am done discussing with you, because it’s an actual waste of time.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-01-04 12:57:53
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One more for the road


I changed my names because of pieces of trash snitches like you and that pedo creeper Iszo. Thats my thanks for carrying people through an aeonic run. I dont help people anymore, I stay anonymous in game.

Stay jelly son <3
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 Bahamut.Mhysa
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By Bahamut.Mhysa 2023-01-04 13:02:36
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
One more for the road


I changed my names because of pieces of trash snitches like you and that pedo creeper Iszo. Thats my thanks for carrying people through an aeonic run. I dont help people anymore, I stay anonymous in game.

Go outside and touch some grass LMAO. I am sure you stay very anonymous and with a whole different char. Again, Im done arguing with you, we know why you got banned. Ride that high horse all you want, but you know the truth. But seriously, go outside and touch some grass, you’re truly bitter over a video game boo. <3
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2023-01-04 13:03:14
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
One more for the road


I changed my names because of pieces of trash snitches like you and that pedo creeper Iszo. Thats my thanks for carrying people through an aeonic run. I dont help people anymore, I stay anonymous in game.

Stay jelly son <3

It's messed up that the guys in this convo will go out of their way to try to get people banned, even if you help them. Whats worse is the silent ones, they go along and get their wins / loot, then turn around and report the ones responsible for helping them.
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 Asura.Iamaman
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By Asura.Iamaman 2023-01-04 13:04:40
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Also, reminder that windower is also cheating per the ToS.

[Citation needed]

2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

I guess if you're defining Windower as modifying the Game and gameplay then sure, but I think "launching two instances of FFXI on the same physical PC" is a stretch when you're talking about modifying the Game and gameplay.
Yes, Windower is "modifying the game and gameplay", especially considering SE has made their own windowed function.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
You use this program to modify game files

Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Yes, Windower is "modifying the game and gameplay"

Which game files does Windower modify? Could someone explain to me how the game functions differently, or how the gameplay is altered by using Windower, instead of just saying it does?

OK, if this is how we're going to have a discussion, I'll take your route: Windower is not modifying the game files. Windower is not modifying the game or gameplay.

This is only part of why they make it against the ToS.

The other reason is they have no control over it. The official client is validated and known to work without triggering all sorts of server side bugs, if there is a bug in Windower that mishandles protocol data then it could cause server side problems and trigger a lot of potential issues. The official client would be validated and tested during development and they control that code. I doubt their parsing code is robust and having an unofficial client interacting with the network code can be scary if you know the server side is poorly written. A lot of code written in this era wasn’t written to account for unexpected values, just to trust the client will only send trustworthy data.

The official client also doesn’t have an API, which is again a stability problem. If you go and write a lua that sends a bunch of malformed data, it could cause a lot of issues.

This is 20 year old code we are talking about here and probably not written to the best of standards, a wrong value here or there could crash the zone or worse. They really don’t want people messing with the lower level details like the packets. The official client won’t cause problems because it’s developed and tested in parallel, Windower and various 3rd party tools aren’t.

Not saying Windower does this or has this problem, but from their POV early on, it’s part of what they are concerned about. Now it’s less of an issue obviously, but I wouldn’t be surprised if sending a random 0xffffffff or 0x41414141 here and there wouldn’t cause issues. At this point they probably have enough confidence in the Windower team and server side fixed over the years to care less about it, but I would expect a poorly written lua to get their attention if it acts up
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-01-04 13:05:32
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Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
Go outside and touch some grass LMAO. I am sure you stay very anonymous and with a whole different char. Again, Im done arguing with you, we know why you got banned. Ride that high horse all you want, but you know the truth. But seriously, go outside and touch some grass, you’re truly bitter over a video game boo. <3
I can say I found the snitch who got me suspended for 3 days.

Asura.Saevel said: »
It's messed up that the guys in this convo will go out of their way to try to get people banned, even if you help them. Whats worse is the silent ones, they go along and get their wins / loot, then turn around and report the ones responsible for helping them.
Its beyond pathetic. Their morals go to the wayside when they are profiting from the multiboxers and their tools.
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 Bahamut.Mhysa
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By Bahamut.Mhysa 2023-01-04 13:06:38
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
Go outside and touch some grass LMAO. I am sure you stay very anonymous and with a whole different char. Again, Im done arguing with you, we know why you got banned. Ride that high horse all you want, but you know the truth. But seriously, go outside and touch some grass, you’re truly bitter over a video game boo. <3
I can say I found the snitch who got me suspended for 3 days.

A whole server away, and I got you suspended. The power I hold is immaculate. I guess I am omnipotent!
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By Mattelot 2023-01-04 13:07:18
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Odin.Stayfresh said: »
I’m so glad I’m not a man.

This is 2023. You can be whatever you say you want to be.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-01-04 13:16:55
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Reporting people and trying to get people banned in a 22+ year old game is cringe.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 13:18:51
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Reporting people and trying to get people banned in a 22+ year old game is cringe.
Using a bot to "carry" people in aeonics is cringe or botting is cringe but it seems to not stop people. It makes them point fingers at others I guess.
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By Katyl 2023-01-04 13:25:47
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I'm curious how many legit Eschuteons there are out there that never touched Craft addon once. Probably rarer than Cat's Eyes.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-01-04 13:27:10
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And at the end of the day, I'm still better than you, and you know it, thats why you had to snitch to try to get me banned.

You failed. Have fun making characters across all 16 servers to find the Hume F I showed off.

I'm out, gym time.

Katyl said: »
I'm curious how many legit Eschuteons there are out there that never touched Craft addon once. Probably rarer than Cat's Eyes.
That number is likely only able to be counted on one hand.
 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 13:31:38
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
And at the end of the day, I'm still better than you, and you know it, thats why you had to snitch to try to get me banned.

You failed. Have fun making characters across all 16 servers to find the Hume F I showed off.

I'm out, gym time.

Katyl said: »
I'm curious how many legit Eschuteons there are out there that never touched Craft addon once. Probably rarer than Cat's Eyes.
That number is likely only able to be counted on one hand.
You mean the bot is better don't you?
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 Bahamut.Mhysa
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By Bahamut.Mhysa 2023-01-04 13:34:51
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
And at the end of the day, I'm still better than you, and you know it, thats why you had to snitch to try to get me banned.

Yes, you are better than me. Because you cheat, and I don't. I hope thinking I am the one who snitched helps you lift more weights and run faster. Delusional men are the funniest kind of men in this game.
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