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Let's start a riot?!?!
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1804
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-06-05 13:28:08
Right now Police can kill in "self defense" with zero retribution or even investigation. Over 98% of all police violence occurrences in the past 10 years have ZERO INVESTIGATION ATTACHED, LET ALONE CHARGES OR CONVICTIONS.
Does a regular citizen get such leeway? "yeah, this dude ran in my house and I shot him" STARTS with investigations, arrests, charges, and often conviction. But a cop is given the benefit of the doubt literally almost every time- why? Are they honestly better citizens than us? Or just different?
Not to mention the devaluation of ANY human life is horrific. There's the loss of the life in question, and the destruction to the life of the person who did the deed if you will. Never underestimate how such an action, even when justified, damages one's psyche.
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-05 13:29:10
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »Those who speak on killing being justified have never killed. You are correct, and I hope I never will.
But honestly, do you agree or disagree that it's acceptable, if it is to save a life, to end another who is taking lives? Given the few milliseconds you have to decide to do so or not.
I want to see all beat cops no longer issued lethal methods of force. Stun guns, rubber bullets, etc are all capable of immobilization to allow arrest in situations where they face lethal resistance.
Have tactical units that are only sent out in warrant situations that justify such force, and such force can only be allowed via court order, not orders from within a police force.
That's my "answer" about "can you justify taking a life to save a life". Its not a great one, just the best I can offer.
In terms of lethal force used in warfare, we should NEVER be comparing law enforcement to warfare. Our citizens our never our enemy. Maybe misunderstood, maybe angry and need open discourse, but never our enemy. Fair point. My next question is: How many officers killed on the line of duty are you willing to allow for this policy to be successful?
Because I'm pretty sure that most of those 1,099 deaths related by officers were done by both self-defense and "suicide-by-cop".
By tommytommytommy 2020-06-05 13:29:28
Over 93% of murders are committed by murderers.
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-05 13:30:55
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »Right now Police can kill in "self defense" with zero retribution or even investigation. Over 98% of all police violence occurrences in the past 10 years have ZERO INVESTIGATION ATTACHED, LET ALONE CHARGES OR CONVICTIONS.
Does a regular citizen get such leeway? "yeah, this dude ran in my house and I shot him" STARTS with investigations, arrests, charges, and often conviction. But a cop is given the benefit of the doubt literally almost every time- why? Are they honestly better citizens than us? Or just different?
Not to mention the devaluation of ANY human life is horrific. There's the loss of the life in question, and the destruction to the life of the person who did the deed if you will. Never underestimate how such an action, even when justified, damages one's psyche. I think that's ***. All deaths should be investigated, irregardless of events. Just to prove that it was done in self-defense.
For liability purposes, if only that.
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By tommytommytommy 2020-06-05 13:32:00
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »Right now Police can kill in "self defense" with zero retribution or even investigation. Over 98% of all police violence occurrences in the past 10 years have ZERO INVESTIGATION ATTACHED, LET ALONE CHARGES OR CONVICTIONS.
Does a regular citizen get such leeway? "yeah, this dude ran in my house and I shot him" STARTS with investigations, arrests, charges, and often conviction. But a cop is given the benefit of the doubt literally almost every time- why? Are they honestly better citizens than us? Or just different?
Not to mention the devaluation of ANY human life is horrific. There's the loss of the life in question, and the destruction to the life of the person who did the deed if you will. Never underestimate how such an action, even when justified, damages one's psyche. I think that's ***. All deaths should be investigated, irregardless of events. Just to prove that it was done in self-defense.
For liability purposes, if only that.
What if you have a license to kill like James Bond ?
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-06-05 13:33:50
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »Right now Police can kill in "self defense" with zero retribution or even investigation. Over 98% of all police violence occurrences in the past 10 years have ZERO INVESTIGATION ATTACHED, LET ALONE CHARGES OR CONVICTIONS.
Does a regular citizen get such leeway? "yeah, this dude ran in my house and I shot him" STARTS with investigations, arrests, charges, and often conviction. But a cop is given the benefit of the doubt literally almost every time- why? Are they honestly better citizens than us? Or just different?
Not to mention the devaluation of ANY human life is horrific. There's the loss of the life in question, and the destruction to the life of the person who did the deed if you will. Never underestimate how such an action, even when justified, damages one's psyche.
There’s a big difference between the argument that police have too much power and the argument that killing is never justified even in self-defense. Keep your messaging consistent.
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Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-06-05 13:34:34
Over 93% of murders are committed by murderers.
I get the desire to mock numbers. People throw 'em out on the interwebz like they're Halloween Candy on November 1.
But many of the numbers posted on this topic are backed up. Maybe we should be doing a better job of citing sources, to clarify what's being used for drama and what's being used to hopefully sway minds.
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-06-05 13:38:29
There’s a big difference between the argument that police have too much power and the argument that killing is never justified even in self-defense. Keep your messaging consistent.
You're right there's a difference, but the two are without doubt intertwined right now. The major complaint is that police forces are not adequately monitored and controlled for abuse of power. With the influence that Police Unions have in controlling investigations and discipline of their members, its impossible for civilian groups to get honest numbers and accurate reporting of those police violence situations to know what was really "self defense" and what was "abuse of power". So until that over-reach of power by police unions is reeled in, there's no way to know what's justified and what's abuse.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-06-05 13:39:27
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »Over 93% of murders are committed by murderers.
I get the desire to mock numbers. People throw 'em out on the interwebz like they're Halloween Candy on November 1.
But many of the numbers posted on this topic are backed up. Maybe we should be doing a better job of citing sources, to clarify what's being used for drama and what's being used to hopefully sway minds.
Often the numbers aren’t the problem, but the arguments that they’re used for are. Statistics only prove causation in a highly controlled vacuum.
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By RadialArcana 2020-06-05 13:44:23
Don't click these videos unless you want to see people getting shot.
By tommytommytommy 2020-06-05 13:47:58
Don't click these videos unless you want to see people getting shot.
Those were highly paid actors recreating a cop drama for CBS.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 655
By Shiva.Zerowone 2020-06-05 14:41:52
For the sake of comedy why has nobody asked what category the other 7% of people that commit murders fall into?
Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-05 14:42:36
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: » its impossible for civilian groups to get honest numbers and accurate reporting of those police violence situations to know what was really "self defense" and what was "abuse of power". Honestly, it shouldn't be.
Which is why we need an agency to keep an eye on the police.
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By volkom 2020-06-05 14:50:31
For the sake of comedy why has nobody asked what category the other 7% of people that commit murders fall into?
suicides. people murdering themselves
Administrator
Server: Excalibur
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By Idiot Boy 2020-06-05 14:52:43
For the sake of comedy why has nobody asked what category the other 7% of people that commit murders fall into?
suicides. people murdering themselves
The judges also would have accepted "geese".
By volkom 2020-06-05 14:55:30
The judges also would have accepted "geese".
we gotta be careful of the ducks too
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 1804
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-06-05 14:58:20
The judges also would have accepted "geese".
we gotta be careful of the ducks too
Nothing tops the evil put out there by Canadian Geese. They stole that entire country's aggression.
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Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-05 14:58:44
The judges also would have accepted "geese".
we gotta be careful of the ducks too
You got to watch out for pigeons too.
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Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 655
By Shiva.Zerowone 2020-06-05 15:00:31
Administrator
Server: Excalibur
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Posts: 669
By Idiot Boy 2020-06-05 15:01:06
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »Nothing tops the evil put out there by Canadian Geese. They stole that entire country's aggression.
They're OP as hell too
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Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1804
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-06-05 15:02:12
Don't click these videos unless you want to see people getting shot.
Why would real shootings be allowed on YouTube?
One dude posts video he thinks is killing real people in hopes of support: no response.
3 people post videos of violent birds in humor: gets 8 likes in 6 minutes.
My faith in the FFXIAH.com community has improved.
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By volkom 2020-06-05 15:04:22
letterkenny thoughts on canada goose
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Server: Shiva
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Posts: 655
By Shiva.Zerowone 2020-06-05 15:04:27
Speaking of: not for the squeamish but that’s what rubber bullets can do.
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By Viciouss 2020-06-05 15:09:41
We had a woman here shot in the head with a rubber bullet from a sniper rifle, which, I didnt even think that was possible. I'm sure this is already happening in areas, but we need to reexamine the use of tear gas and rubber bullets in this country as a whole. Especially when they are being used against people who are just standing peacefully in a crowd.
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By volkom 2020-06-05 15:13:07
goes back to police training ~ i believe some of the larger rubber bullets like the ones fired from what is essentially a grenade launcher are suppose to be aimed at the ground and not directly at the target
Lakshmi.Leosin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Leosin 2020-06-05 15:16:02
Speaking of: not for the squeamish but that’s what rubber bullets can do.
Not quoting the spoiler because /vomit.
I have to ask though...what in the actual hell is that in the wound? *shudders*
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 1804
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-06-05 15:19:33
rubber bullets have never been intended for "direct line-of-fire" use. They are designed to ricochet off the ground into the legs of a standing crowd, breaking up the crowd by causing them to run or fall. They've been used in "line-of-fire" methods for decades, almost since introduction to police forces. They load like regular bullets, but they're rubber, so people just went with "oh well they can't kill you like regular bullets"- so incredibly NOT TRUE.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2020-06-05 15:24:11
Speaking of: not for the squeamish but that’s what rubber bullets can do.
Not quoting the spoiler because /vomit.
I have to ask though...what in the actual hell is that in the wound? *shudders*
That's a small caliber rubber bullet directly to the forehead.
It's just human tissue and blood blackened from impact/tearing.
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So yea been out of the loop, has the rebellion began?
Is sublime gonna make a 2020 edition? What cities are popping off? What was the "last straw"?
Stay tuned for more excitement in 2020....
Edit: diverting the latest corona shenanigans from random thoughts.
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