100,000,000g Bounty
100,000,000g Bounty
What's stupid about it? If you want to score touchdowns in football you gotta tackle some ***, along with lots of strategy, planning, practice, and teamwork.
Please don't compare this to football lol.. Actually, nevermind, I'm gonna just stop posting in this thread, and I'm not on Urteil's server anyways. GL Urt on your quest to find some fun in this event. I personally just think it's really lame.
Ballista isn't a separate game, everything you can achieve in the rest of the game gear/weapons etc. Many of the mechanics are unmolested and all the power you attain everywhere else in the world helps further your ability.
Imagine doing dynamis for just dynamis gear that could only be worn in dynamis, to get more dynamis gear.
The beautiful thing about XI is how your gains in the world are consistent in their ability in the rest of the world, for the most part.
Progress in many other revents can be used to further your affluence in there, relics mythics etc. Then refined with skill.
Separating the two is why people feel it died, it has relevance but at the current level cap, with the current rewards at that cap, and strategies/methods associated with it.
The game is not secularized. Wonderful.
Imagine doing dynamis for just dynamis gear that could only be worn in dynamis, to get more dynamis gear.
The beautiful thing about XI is how your gains in the world are consistent in their ability in the rest of the world, for the most part.
Progress in many other revents can be used to further your affluence in there, relics mythics etc. Then refined with skill.
Separating the two is why people feel it died, it has relevance but at the current level cap, with the current rewards at that cap, and strategies/methods associated with it.
The game is not secularized. Wonderful.
Odin.Eikechi said: »
It was never the focus though. I'm not sure how popular a second tournament would be though it might raise some interest due to nostalgia or w/e. And it being "lame" is relative. I think the game concept itself behind ballista is stupid as all hell.
What is the game concept behind it?
Bahamut.Eorphere said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
It was never the focus though. I'm not sure how popular a second tournament would be though it might raise some interest due to nostalgia or w/e. And it being "lame" is relative. I think the game concept itself behind ballista is stupid as all hell.
What is the game concept behind it?
It comes from tournaments the countries used to do instead of all out war, petras used to actually be skulls (according to moogles.)
Then it turned into a Sandy training exercise which was adopted by the nations as a way to test their troops against each other in battle.
Interesting, I vaguely remember there being a story behind it in game now that you mention it.
Did you mean what was the lore behind Ballista, or how it's actually played?
If you are asking me, I assumed he meant lore when he said game concept, so Urteil answered it in the way that at least I interpreted it.
I suppose he could have been speaking about the way it is played. For example, maybe the inability to swap gear is silly to him. I don't know. I guess when he said it was silly, it made me intrigued about the lore. Not that that would necessarily turn me away from a fun event. But that is me.
I suppose he could have been speaking about the way it is played. For example, maybe the inability to swap gear is silly to him. I don't know. I guess when he said it was silly, it made me intrigued about the lore. Not that that would necessarily turn me away from a fun event. But that is me.
Ballista*
Its a really good team building/character revealer that I use for my LS. It has a goal scoring petras for points and the PvP aspect to it.
The point isn't to kill everyone, (though that may help) it is to quarry for petras and score them into the Rooks, the goals.
It shows you who can take a beating, who wants to be Rambo (and will fail horribly), and who can take criticism and continually get better.
Its a really good team building/character revealer that I use for my LS. It has a goal scoring petras for points and the PvP aspect to it.
The point isn't to kill everyone, (though that may help) it is to quarry for petras and score them into the Rooks, the goals.
It shows you who can take a beating, who wants to be Rambo (and will fail horribly), and who can take criticism and continually get better.
Yeah when most people complain about Ballista being lame one of the most common things is no gear swapping. I like no gear swapping because again, that takes the emphasis away from collecting all the good gear and focusing on developing skill. The other common thing to complain about is the whole scoring system, some people want to just have a deathmatch, some people hate the dissatisfaction of your score attempt being blocked. Interrupting people from scoring just adds more strategy into the game.
There actually is some gear swapping in 60 cap, with some jobs requiring multiple sets of gear which all might see use in a single 15 minute match, depending on the situation, the 10 second penalty goes by quick, and you can still do some things while penalized.
There actually is some gear swapping in 60 cap, with some jobs requiring multiple sets of gear which all might see use in a single 15 minute match, depending on the situation, the 10 second penalty goes by quick, and you can still do some things while penalized.
I know that fairness has been stressed before, but really, wouldn't it be most fair for everyone to have access to the same gear? Or am I missing something?
No gear swapping puts more emphasis on collecting all the good gear, as I need specific sets to counter all the jobs/foes I will encounter/team play styles.
Hybrid pieces, total haste pieces, resistance pieces, odd pieces with multiple stats nobody would normally look at.
I have to funnel all that gear down to one set and need to have the ability to have the most diverse sets possible for the large amount of foes I will duel and plays styles I anticipate.
I mean I have actually created a Magic Evasion CHR scythe, and MDB Scythe for certain jobs I play against.
The magian paths, for example, opens up so many gear opportunities for jobs and ways to counter/prepare for setups they may encounter.
Taking the gear out of the game severely limits the options jobs have and it only expands as the level gets higher, giving better incentive to go out and do oddball things, or get good at the rest of the game to be that walking, faceless, nameless, badass that roams the middle school hallways.
Everyone does have the same game world to play in and the same base opportunity to get the gear, what you do once you log in is your own problem/gain.
Hybrid pieces, total haste pieces, resistance pieces, odd pieces with multiple stats nobody would normally look at.
I have to funnel all that gear down to one set and need to have the ability to have the most diverse sets possible for the large amount of foes I will duel and plays styles I anticipate.
I mean I have actually created a Magic Evasion CHR scythe, and MDB Scythe for certain jobs I play against.
The magian paths, for example, opens up so many gear opportunities for jobs and ways to counter/prepare for setups they may encounter.
Taking the gear out of the game severely limits the options jobs have and it only expands as the level gets higher, giving better incentive to go out and do oddball things, or get good at the rest of the game to be that walking, faceless, nameless, badass that roams the middle school hallways.
Everyone does have the same game world to play in and the same base opportunity to get the gear, what you do once you log in is your own problem/gain.
Well, right. I understand that. But it seems to me that at some point maybe skill is at least slightly less important when one person has access to gear another doesn't. For example: Player A understands mechanics and has amazing reflexes, but just keeps getting slept or petrified because they lack gear, whereas, Player B who isn't quite as sharp would have already been slept or petrified and defeated had they had the same gear. Yet they win because of stats.
Both are important.
A highly skilled, intelligent player should be able to do the "mundane" "boring" "trite" things to get the gear to succeed.
If they can't see that then they just don't want it bad enough and anything beyond that is entitlement.
Long ago in 2006 I got my Hauberk, Orichalcum Scythe wielding *** destroyed by Excalibur. I never forgot that and I worked very hard to be able to compete and destroy it, and if I lose to at least be able to resist it to the best of my ability.
Not make excuses.
A highly skilled, intelligent player should be able to do the "mundane" "boring" "trite" things to get the gear to succeed.
If they can't see that then they just don't want it bad enough and anything beyond that is entitlement.
Long ago in 2006 I got my Hauberk, Orichalcum Scythe wielding *** destroyed by Excalibur. I never forgot that and I worked very hard to be able to compete and destroy it, and if I lose to at least be able to resist it to the best of my ability.
Not make excuses.
Bahamut.Eorphere said: »
I know that fairness has been stressed before, but really, wouldn't it be most fair for everyone to have access to the same gear? Or am I missing something?
This is where Urteil and I diverge slightly.
We play 60 cap because both teams have same job combinations and similar gear on all the jobs. Besides your characters race, everything else is equal except for skill.
As I mentioned before, 99 players love to take advantage of all their accumulated gear they worked hard for. Part of the "skill" in being good in regular FFXI is being able to get all your top gear. The challenge of beating Urteil is beating him in the general FFXI PvE environment (collecting good gear) as well as the PvP environment (skill, reaction time, and knowledge/experience to know which gear and sub job to use). Urteil totes being the complete FFXI player, which involves mastering both those environments.
[+]
I mean, I suppose it just goes to show that you cannot consider it a separate game. If your progress outside of PvP determines what is accessible to you in PvP, then obviously it is relevant.
For instance, unless I were going to PvP, no way I would spend hours upon hours going for the earrings with -pdt and earth resist.
For instance, unless I were going to PvP, no way I would spend hours upon hours going for the earrings with -pdt and earth resist.
Carbuncle.Zirk said: »
Bahamut.Eorphere said: »
I know that fairness has been stressed before, but really, wouldn't it be most fair for everyone to have access to the same gear? Or am I missing something?
This is where Urteil and I diverge slightly.
We play 60 cap because both teams have same job combinations and similar gear on all the jobs. Besides your characters race, everything else is equal except for skill.
As I mentioned before, 99 players love to take advantage of all their accumulated gear they worked hard for. Part of the "skill" in being good in regular FFXI is being able to get all your top gear. The challenge of beating Urteil is beating him in the general FFXI PvE environment (collecting good gear) as well as the PvP environment (skill, reaction time, and knowledge/experience to know which gear and sub job to use). Urteil totes being the complete FFXI player, which involves mastering both those environments.
Thank you, you have earned my respect.
[+]
Bahamut.Eorphere said: »
I mean, I suppose it just goes to show that you cannot consider it a separate game. If your progress outside of PvP determines what is accessible to you in PvP, then obviously it is relevant.
For instance, unless I were going to PvP, no way I would spend hours upon hours going for the earrings with -pdt and earth resist.
For instance, unless I were going to PvP, no way I would spend hours upon hours going for the earrings with -pdt and earth resist.
Yes.
I did that vunkerl quest over 300 times trying to get PDT earrings and two +3 resist petrify earrings, because of this.
(I have terrible luck.)
I guess my main issue with this is that some players (and I nowhere near qualify) who have the skill to be the best never can simply because they don't have the time or gil get the right gear.
Either way, I have totally been sold on PvP. Just saying that if I were good at it, I am not sure I would challenge anyone who doesn't have access to the same gear I do (not saying you are doing this, you are inviting everyone- including people with better gear [unless you have the best possible, which is maybe the case]).
Either way, I have totally been sold on PvP. Just saying that if I were good at it, I am not sure I would challenge anyone who doesn't have access to the same gear I do (not saying you are doing this, you are inviting everyone- including people with better gear [unless you have the best possible, which is maybe the case]).
I challenged people with better than me all the time.
It showed me what I needed to do, where the true deficiencies were, and what I should be aiming for.
It also made me want it, really, really bad.
It showed me what I needed to do, where the true deficiencies were, and what I should be aiming for.
It also made me want it, really, really bad.
Phoenix.Urteil said: »
Bahamut.Eorphere said: »
I mean, I suppose it just goes to show that you cannot consider it a separate game. If your progress outside of PvP determines what is accessible to you in PvP, then obviously it is relevant.
For instance, unless I were going to PvP, no way I would spend hours upon hours going for the earrings with -pdt and earth resist.
For instance, unless I were going to PvP, no way I would spend hours upon hours going for the earrings with -pdt and earth resist.
Yes.
I did that vunkerl quest over 300 times trying to get PDT earrings and two +3 resist petrify earrings, because of this.
(I have terrible luck.)
And I admire that. I spent over 100 hours getting my refresh hairpin and subligar. I guess I just feel when it is transferred to PvP, it diminishes the idea that skill will be the only factor.
Me leading a Linkshell that gets me things/everyone else, is a skill.
Reading this thread has been very constructive. Am learning a lot about gear choices and whatnot.
I just wish I could go to phoenix server. Not to win but to learn in an aggressive manner on how things work to get better.
I just wish I could go to phoenix server. Not to win but to learn in an aggressive manner on how things work to get better.
[+]
And if you are beating people with better than you, that is amazing. Believe me, I am sold. If this becomes more popular and turns into something huge, I am a fan of yours. But, what about those who don't have better than you that you might barely beat? I mean, who is better if all is not equal?
That is my point.
That is my point.
Phoenix.Urteil said: »
Me leading a Linkshell that gets me things/everyone else, is a skill.
This makes me want to transfer even more, lol.
Not that it can necessarily happen (unless maybe we all spam SE with requests), but imo, the most fair way in terms of gear would be to have both parties pick from every available option. Otherwise, how else could we know in those close fights?
Let's use an extreme example to prove the logic. Let's say person A has amazing skill yet plays naked. Person B is decent in skill, but has the top gear. Person B wins. Who is the better player?
LOL, now that I think about it, I shouldn't have used the word logic being a philosophy major... but I think that at least the point can be taken.
LOL, now that I think about it, I shouldn't have used the word logic being a philosophy major... but I think that at least the point can be taken.
Bahamut.Eorphere said: »
And if you are beating people with better than you, that is amazing. Believe me, I am sold. If this becomes more popular and turns into something huge, I am a fan of yours. But, what about those who don't have better than you that you might barely beat? I mean, who is better if all is not equal?
That is my point.
That is my point.
Shinfuuma once told me "There is nothing to gain in a fair fight."
What he was getting at was that you only really get glory if you beat somebody while at a disadvantage, if you weren't disadvantage then there's nothing to celebrate about.
However this simply seems to be a way to justify losses and put gravity on wins.
Is not ensuring the advantage through the world you play in also a skill? Through training and rigor?
If you equate skill to ability and the rest of the game to acquisition, of course when there's a great disparity in ability vs acquisition you will win with skill.
This is an RPG.
I advocate having both, ability only took me so far. It made no sense for someone of my caliber to be swinging around an Auction House weapon, so I changed it. If I'm so skilled and amazing, why can't I go do something mundane to achieve "greatness".
Wouldn't it be irresponsible to not do the thing that I put beneath me, and still claim I am anything but a full of it?
Just the martial artist conditions their bones against the wooden pole and palm against the stone. If he punches someone who hasn't is it, unfair that he wins?
Very poetically put. And I understand on a realistic level.
Let me ask you this: Would you be willing to make the same wager if the terms were that we had the same job/SJ and same gear?
Let me ask you this: Would you be willing to make the same wager if the terms were that we had the same job/SJ and same gear?
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